From Stylist to CEO: Building and Iconic Salon & Brand

[00:00:00] 

JANINE: I started my salon when I was 24. The owner went to jail and I just like, stayed around. So that's how I got a salon. I'd never raised money before. I'd never made a pitch deck before, but it's that, right? Like no, I am not like on paper the smartest, but I'm the most figure- it-outest. And I did just that. I just was like, alright, who's smarter than me? I'm gonna ask them questions. 

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[00:00:28] 

SHANALIE: Janine Jarman, celebrity stylist and salon owner founded Curl Cult to help people embrace their natural texture. After seeing the challenges her curly hair clients face and experiencing them herself, she set out to rethink the traditional salon perm. The result? A simple, healthy and sustainable curl treatment paired with at-home products curls will absolutely love.

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SHANALIE: Janine, thank you so much for joining us. We are so excited to have this conversation with you today. Like, I was just saying, you're a legend and honestly like such an important figure even for us at Boulevard. So thank you so much for being here today. 

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[00:01:28] 

JANINE: Thanks for having me and thanks for wearing your hair curly for me.

SHANALIE: I had to. You are the Curl Queen herself. So for those of you, or for those who haven't met you before, I'd love to know a little bit about you, your history, what brought you to the industry. Yeah, all of that good stuff. 

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JANINE: Okay. So my name's Janine Jarman. I've been doing hair for, oh my God, for, for always. I always say like I was a waitress and like a cocktail waitress before that, but that's about it. So I started doing hair in high school. Terrible student. Not for lack of effort. Like, I tried really hard to be absolutely like, below mediocre. And hair found me. I'd wear my hair in like, big tossled updos. It was the late nineties, so you know an era, think Pamela Anderson.

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SHANALIE: Yep. 

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JANINE: But I would wear that to school every day. Really real casual. And a girl took notice and was like, Hey, will you do my hair like that for homecoming court? I think she's nominated and, yeah, and I still know her name, Yvonne Pearcy. She asked me to do her hair. I did her hair and I worked at a bikini shop at the time. She came during my break, I did her hair in the dressing room with my caboodle and that was it. I was like, oh shoot. I really, I'm in love with this. And it wasn't even just like the hair part of it. I love the surprise and delight, the day making part of it—how happy she was. And then I love the business building part of it.

'cause then she got all of her friends that for the dance the next day they all wanted me to do their hair. 

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SHANALIE: So your first referral, there we go. I love it. 

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JANINE: I do it for the referrals. I really do. And yeah, and it took off from there. I have met a best friend who did everyone's makeup at the time and we teamed up. She's still my very best friend.  Um, she's a librarian though now. 

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SHANALIE: Love that. Not a makeup artist. She went for the books? 

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[00:03:22] 

JANINE: No, no. But yeah, that's how I got my start. And I went straight to beauty school and I knew I'd been so lousy at everything, my whole like up my whole life until I was a teen that I was so excited to finally be good at something. I love that. Like I've never done a sport, never done nothing. So I knew, all right, if this is what I'm good at, I'm going to just devour it and you know, play in every arena that this affords me. And I did just that. 

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SHANALIE: I love that. 'cause you know, hair is such an intimate thing, right? You're touching someone. You're really there with them and you get to know inside out, like what people are insecure about and stuff like. So if you're gonna be good at something, like let it be that. Right. That's awesome. 

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JANINE: It was, it's, it's super powerful. I mean, I don't, to this day, even though I've like, do a ton of different stuff, more than just, it takes me out from behind the chair, but I never have lost sight of the power that clients surrender to you. They unload, you know, and it can be, oh, they unload on you. But it's not that, it's this like intimate trust, right? It's this disarming that they feel safe and seen and yeah, I feel, I feel honored to, you know, offering services that make people feel safe and seen.

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[00:04:39] 

SHANALIE: Totally. Like they lay their armor down. Yeah. You get to see this different side to them. And it's funny how quickly it happens. 

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JANINE: And everyone, right? It's not just like, you know, the regulars like, I mean, from celebrities to like, you know, politicians to like people that you're like, yo, you should not be saying things like this in a public arena. But, you know, it's, it just goes to show the power of touch and just making eye contact, putting your hands on someone's shoulders. A lot of times that's just what someone needs. 

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SHANALIE: Absolutely. So you have built like an iconic salon, Hairroin, and while you are doing all the things that heroin needed, being an owner, helping manage, looking after your clients, you built another brand. Let's hear about Curl Cult. 

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[00:05:25] 

JANINE: I've always worked for product companies. A lot of people don't realize that. I've worked behind the scenes a lot. In front, like I've been a platform artist. You know, whatever artistic director for different brands. A lot of my skillset was behind the scenes in product development and working with chemists one-on-one of like bringing to fruition testing, uh, rigorously testing stuff so that it supported the would be needs in future hair styling. 

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So you have to kinda have products that are gonna support the will be trends. So it's this unique thing behind the scenes. I knew curly hair was just a matter of time, not just gonna come back trend-wise, but necessity wise. As a whole, we're getting more textured as we cross pollinate around the globe. Hair's getting more textured and there's more unique needs for that. So I knew that this was a growing trend and some of the big brands I worked for, I was like, we need to make a better perm. They were all like, Ew, gross. No, it smells like eggs. Yeah. Well, I mean, the real reason, they're like, it's really expensive and gonna take a long time. Right. And shoot, they were correct, but I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do this. 

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SHANALIE: And you're determined. 

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JANINE: Yeah. So I did it behind the scenes. I had this opportunity to work with a lab in Italy. Why Italy? Italy meets all the eco-guidelines. Parabens, sulfate, surfactant, free vegan. That's their table stakes. Like it's not, they don't like, oh, and we're vegan like that. They're just like, why wouldn't we be? So, I knew I couldn't get it made in the States because we, at the time, I mean, even still we, it's gotten better. We don't have those regulations in place for chemical goods in particular. So a lab in Italy wanted me to consult with them on a project, and I was like, Hey, how about instead of paying me money, you make a perm for me and it's a really weird thing to trade, which I'm notorious for trading weird things. 

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SHANALIE: Hey, it's like in the nature of our industry, 

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JANINE: Underground economy. I love it. Love, yeah, so that's like the true, like punk rock in me. So yeah, I traded my services and listen, they thought it was like, they're like this idiot, like, sure, we'll make you a perm. Nobody wants a perm. And I like their chemist cussed me out in italian. I don't speak Italian in case anyone's wondering. But I knew, I knew. But he basically was like, nobody wants a perm. Why do you wanna waste your time on this and our time? But I was like, whatever, trust me.

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And it took me five years to land on a formula that hit all the benchmarks that perms, um, safe, clean, smells better, less steps, and infuses protections. So it's a texture treatment, if you will, um, and with less steps. And it's unique enough that I got a patent. 

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SHANALIE: Love that. Congrats. She has a patent. Look at you.

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[00:08:08]

JANINE: It's probably one of my proudest, proudest things. It's just like one of many, I'm gonna be like, you know. The mop and glow. Seriously, if you just put that on my gravestone, my patent numbers. Patented, yeah, I launched that. Um, well, I was working on it behind the scenes and then 2020 happened and I had a salon in Hairroin in New York and Hairroin Los Angeles.

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And wouldn't you know, I found myself out of work for the first time in my life. And I wasn't, I was like in the two worst cities in 2020, like we were so extra closed in exactly where my salons were, and I gave myself two weeks of being sad and I chose, I sat myself down and was like, this is not gonna be your story. Like, this is what, like, I really feel like that innovation, joy, all those things are a choice. I mean, like on paper it was totally devastating. Like there was, I had to board up two salons multiple times. Like, there was like 90% of my staff quit, moved, whatever, but I chose to write a different story and I'd never raised money before. 

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I'd never made a pitch deck before. 'cause I started my salon when I was 24. The owner went to jail and I just like, stayed around. So that's how I got a salon. But yeah, needless to say, I wasn't like doing a Canva pitch deck. Which, she knows how to use Canva now!

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SHANALIE: Oh, look at you. Okay. Designer. 

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JANINE: I know how to use a lot of things now, but it's that right? Like no, I am not like on paper the smartest, but I'm the most figure-it-outest. And I did just that. I just was like, all right, who's smarter than me? I'm gonna ask them questions. I mean, you're your big boss man. Matt Danna was one of 'em just called, yeah, I don't even think I called him. He called me. Like scared for, not like kind of scared, like secret, scared for me. But he is like, so what's your plan? And he is like, what about that weird perm thing you're doing? And I'm like, I don't know. Should I just do that? And he is like, yeah, Janine, I really think you should. And I chose to listen to like a select few people in my life.

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Because if you like, it's one of the, like what's one of my favorite things, like don't go to the hardware store for milk. Right? Like you have, you're gonna get tons of advice and it'll be like, cool, awesome people. But you have to take your pool of advice and be like, okay, well who uniquely knows? Who has the best perspective? Who's the most like honest, for good reasons? For me, who's also not predisposed to being a scaredy cat. Right. Like you, you gotta be careful who you take advice from too. 

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[00:11:00] 

SHANALIE: Everyone has their limiting beliefs and they put 'em on you. 

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JANINE: And they're like, I should let her know this is the worst idea because this is terrifying Right. I mean, it happened to me when I was opening a salon in New York. I had this friend from high school. I was like, I'm opening a salon in New York. And I was like, eight months pregnant. She's like, you shouldn't do that 'cause you're gonna have a baby. And I'm like, I mean. They… 

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SHANALIE: So what? 

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JANINE: They let babies in New York? I think. And they did. They totally weed babies in New York. It was fine. But it's that, so it was, you know, Matt, Dana being one of 'em that he's like, yeah, you should do this. Focus on this. And he helped me figure out how to raise money and, and he was so kind with his honesty of like, Hey, I also didn't know what I was doing when I was raising money. 'cause it's really scary and you have to, I don't know, pitch, like when someone tells you, oh, you have to pitch like 300 times for one yes. And I was like, huh. I, I, but I'm a hairdresser. Like everyone always tells me yes. It was a real, real, real, like, yeah, reality shock, you know? And I'm pitching to people who are like, I'm baldheaded, what would you do with my hair? I'm like, oh my God, kill me now. Like this is the worst, but it's, yeah, you just put your big girl panties on and just keep showing up and keep doing it, because why not? My salons were closed. I had no other options on the table, and it was like, the worst is,  if they're like, you're terrible at this. I'd be like, you're right. I've never done this before. Okay. 

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SHANALIE: Yeah.  It doesn't mean the idea isn't good. 

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JANINE: Yeah, just get  better quick. 

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SHANALIE: Exactly. I love that. So, you know, I think the perms have come a long way, right? This isn't like the stereotypical perm that we all learned like back in the eighties and beauty school doing the perm sections and things like that. So, like what sparked this for you? And what did you want others to know about this service? 

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[00:12:57] 

JANINE: Yeah, it's, and that's probably been the biggest, besides like having, you know, limitless funds. The other big obstacle is the education. And we are now without an entire generation that permed. So there's not Sally Sue next to you that's like, I built a whole career on perming. Right. It's gone. They've since retired. So it's really, you know, there's multiple parts of one, in beauty school and like, this onion only got peeled for me. I was like, 'cause I was like, I've always, I have textured hair, I've always done textured hair.

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I've always leaned into doing all types of textures and I was very taken back with how much our industry hasn't supported that. YAnd not for like, because they don't want to. It's just brands, um, schools. Salons, like the education isn't there and there's a lot of segmenting where it's like, oh, curly hair is for people of color, or, you know, or if you have like any kind of texture, then we're just gonna smooth it. Or curl it with a curling iron. 

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There's a lot of like conform or else going on in our industry, and I'm okay. I'm up for that challenge. It's, I realized that I thought, oh, I'm gonna teach everybody how to get pumped on perming and like a gentler, easier, softer way to perm hair and create texture. But I found out quickly that wasn't enough. It was also, oh shoot, you need to know how to cut curly and textured hair. Okay. You also need to know how like, 'cause I have curl supportive products. I'm like, right, because you like, yeah, of course. All need lightweight curl products. And they're like, how do we use them? And I'm like, oh my God! We have to teach all the things.

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And you know, thankfully my background is in. Education for brands. So that's, that's been it. It's the three pillar approach of texture creation. So it's a three pillar approach. It's texture creation and support, whether we're rearranging it, giving it, enhancing it, and everything in between. You know, really breaking outside of the perm box, if you will, of perm isn't just granny curls. It's permanent texture. So what does that look like for your client? Is it somebody who has curly hair here but not up here and getting it to just be all copacetic together? Is it elongating a curl pattern or, you know, rearranging a curl pattern? Is it giving someone a curl pattern so they can wash and go. So that's the texture creation. 

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Second pillar is shape shifting. How are we supporting a haircut for curly, textured hair? Because it's totally different than cutting straight hair. You have to cut three dimensionally. You can't just hold it out with tension because Yeah, that's when we cry.

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Yeah. Because now it's gonna take nine years to grow our hair back. Right. And that too, these microaggressions of like. I get it. I get why hairdressers don't wanna cut curly hair. 'cause they're like, the last time I did it, that person, you know, put a hex on me because I did it wet and pulled the hair. You know, like, because yeah, there just isn't access to like, hey, this isn't harder, this is just different and here's how we, here's a straightforward approach to how to do it. And then the other part is. Styling and supporting it from, you know, for them at home through products and how do we diffuse dry? What products do we use, when and why, and how do we apply them? You know, it's a foreign concept for a lot of stylists as I'm teaching them like, oh, you put curly hair products in wet, and they're like. Oh my God. But how  would they know? That feels crazy.

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[00:16:39] 

SHANALIE: That's true. There's so many people who like, have curly hair themselves that don't know how to do it, and then they look to their professionals to be that guiding voice and sometimes they don't even know. So it goes a long way. Like we think it's like, oh duh. Like you do hair, you should know these things. But no, it's so different.

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JANINE: When and how, unless they have curly hair themselves that they're leaning into. Mm-hmm. Unless they have an education that is like, you know, designed for curl texture support and all of its intricacies, like there's so many opportunities that are, aren't even beginning to be explored from the cosmetology level to regular brands. You know, it's like, oh yeah, we have some curl products thrown into the arsenal, but it's like aerosol stuff. Like things that you're like, huh, not quite. No, you don't. Uh, you know, so it's, yeah. We're, I hope to be that brand more than just like, I knew the perm was just the start because that was a big part of it. How do we get texture to be easier for a client instead of trying to always erase it? I, that's not my goal. I want somebody to be able to lean into it and to have an easier time with it at home and let texture make their hair easier. But how do we get now hairdressers on board to not think of doing curly and textured hair as a specialty, but as just another tool in their tool belt. Right? 

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SHANALIE: It's just hair. 

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[00:18:34] 

SHANALIE: So you touched on it a little bit, like talk to us a little bit about the education. Like, so what does that process look like? How does someone start, how do they get better at it. Like, I would love to pick your brain on that. 

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JANINE: For me, it started with, I really looked at the landscape of what's out there right now, and I found a lot of the curl education was skewed to very curly hair and a lot of it was really expensive. So I think for Curl Cult, I welcome all the education, like it's all important. But the white space I saw that we could offer, and as a salon owner, myself, stylist, I was like, all right for my perm, you know? And it was funny, like, investors were like, we should be charging for this. I'm like, nah. I want people to know how to use the product for free correctly. So I did an online certification. So to use our PERM system, you have to get certified. It takes like 20 minutes and you're good to go. There's a barber certification and a cosmetology certification. And then from there we have different sets. I design all the perm sets to complement corresponding haircuts too. 

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SHANALIE: Very cool.

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JANINE:  Because that's really what we're doing. It's like we're designing into the finished look, the look.  

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SHANALIE: Yeah. I love that way of thinking. Yep. I feel like people hyper fixate on like one part of service. And then like the complete look doesn't quite feel complete.

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[00:19:53] 

JANINE: Yeah. When I think too, we're moving as an industry with more independent stylists, there's gonna be a lot less specialties as far as like, I only cut, I only color. Once you start working for yourself, you quickly, you know, don't wanna run the risk of sending your clients somewhere else to get something else 'cause also too, the, uh, the flip side of that convenience has become increasingly of higher importance in beauty. 

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So I think knowing how to leverage someone's texture is gonna just be a better opportunity for you to connect with your client deeper, expand opportunities for clients referring to your business. And less likely for them to leave. Because once you get somebody to like, really know how to leverage their texture. They're yours for life. Curly hair clients are the most loyal. I still have people flying in and I, and I'm always offering, 'cause I work once a week if I'm lucky, behind the chair and I'm like, please just let me get on a Zoom call with your client in Texas. I will show her how to do this. Yeah, I have an online certification. They're like, nah, I'm good. I'll fly to you. So I think, yeah, you know, devouring any education you can is really important. Um, there's plenty of free stuff out there so you can be comfortably begin your journey and then begin to pay for stuff as you see fit.

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[00:21:13] 

SHANALIE: I love that. Yeah. And you, you touched on it a little bit where you mentioned you have a certification for barbers as well. And I think this has been a huge service in this industry. So can you talk a little bit about your relationship to that? 

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JANINE: I think for barbers, we have such savvy, business savvy barbers out there, really deeply talented. And as the trends shift, like we're seeing a lot of shifting towards medium textured hair or a medium length hair, um, textured hair, a lot of men's curly hairstyles that need a perm to actually get that look, you know, it's not, t's not realistic to be like, oh, then you're gonna curling iron this every single day. Right, right. 

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SHANALIE: Even with the longer lanes, even if you have curly hair busting out, any type of hot tool every day is like insanity if you ask me. 

JANINE: I mean, it's really bad and damaging on your hair if I'm being perfectly honest. Like the fact that we've ever, we're like, yeah, and you should heat style your hair every day. Do you, would you iron your clothing every single day in the same spot? Like eventually you're gonna burn a hole. 

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SHANALIE: Millennials, we've given up on ironing. Yeah, we're just wrinkly. 

JANINE: We just iron our hair haha. But yeah, with barbers, I think them leaning into the perm service for twofolds. One, making themselves irreplaceable. Two, giving themselves a raise. If on average, if you do two texture services, like two perms a week, you would stand to make anywhere from $20 to $30 thousand in the course of a year. 

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SHANALIE: That's a huge difference. And that’s not that many additional services. 

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JANINE: That's like in some areas of the country, down payment on a house difference.

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[00:22:53] 

SHANALIE: Yeah, absolutely. Just focusing a little bit on Hairroin, like, you know, your salon's always had an edge, like, and, and of course you bring that like same energy to Curl Cult as well, like how do you come up with these concepts? Your branding ideas and everything and really how do you like differentiate, whether it be Hairroin or Curl Cult? 

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JANINE: I love this industry and I love to celebrate our uniqueness and our like, hairdressers in my heart are who we look to for trends, who we look to for individuality. I think this has always been true in society, like hairdressers are always the taste makers. I mean, this is gonna, I'm gonna sound like ughh, I, I just sometimes hate what big businesses have done to beauty and homogenized it and made it so safe and sleek and boring. 

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SHANALIE: Yep. I hear you. 

JANINE: So boring. And like, nothing that speaks to you as the individual. It's like, just get in line. Everybody drink a glass of milk and we're all the same. Like, it feels so boring. And that was, especially for Curl Cult, well Hairroin, I called it that. A friend of mine thought of the name and it came to her in a dream. 'cause I took the salon over and I had. I took it overnight, over, so I had to change the name quickly. And she's like, all right, I'm gonna tell you what the name is, but you have to promise to name it this 'cause it's too good.

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And she told me, I was like, oh my God, that's the worst. I can't name it that, but I will never break a promise. So I was like, all right. And the fact that I was 24. Opening a salon or taking over a salon in LA where there's a salon on every corner. It was like, hate it or love it. You remember it. You know? So I think I'd always rather err on the side of being unforgettable than safe. 

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[00:24:44]

SHANALIE: Take the risk. I love that. 

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JANINE: Yeah. It's like, it's easy to be safe for Curl Cult, same thing I think, you know, the feminist in me and the crazy hair lady. Like being told that it's like, oh, curly hair's unprofessional. Uh, like I want, as a brand, I want us to celebrate taking up space in the beauty space and leaning into texture and using it as a vessel of anarchy and just being like, no, we will not conform to your beauty standards. We will have easier ways of styling our hair and will celebrate individuality through, you know, some products that really speak to us, but are here to support us, not conform us.

[00:24:56] 

SHANALIE: Not break us down. I love that because I actually had to find, I had my own journey Yeah. There with that because I spent, you know, I, I was like well into my thirties when I actually felt comfortable wearing my curly hair in professional spaces. We'll call it. 

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JANINE: Isn't that crazy to say out loud? 

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SHANALIE: Yeah. Yeah. Look at this hair. And I was hiding it the whole time when I had to be like a grownup. Right? So, no, I, I hear you. Like, it's definitely, there's definitely some things I had to unlearn while like accepting this, you know, so I, I do appreciate brands like yours and really where beauty's going where it's like embracing what you have and let's make it better, make you feel more comfortable in it, versus like, oh, what you have isn't good. Let's, we're gonna make you good and make you the opposite of what you actually are. 

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[00:26:12] 

JANINE: Yeah. And damage your hair into submission is like. I grew up in Huntington Beach in my high school years and was like mortifying to every hairdresser that I walked into. They're like, oh, this hair is so crazy. Just because it wasn't blonde and straight. I'm like, okay, I don't, you know, my mom wore the shortest hair she could ever 'cause her hair's even crazier than mine. And I, I vowed to not make anyone feel like that when I became a hairdresser. And yeah, I was like, no, my hair's not crazy.

I just don't know how to do it and I need someone to show me. And yeah, I mean it wasn't until I honestly became allergic to hair color with my first kid that I was like, oh, I think I'm gonna just start wearing my hair curly because I was experiencing increased allergies. You know, same with why I wanted to make clean products, because it's like, yeah, I don’t think we need to cause cancer while we're doing this. Come on. Weird, you know? Call me crazy.

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[00:27:13] 

SHANALIE:  Not just for the client, but like the stylist actually doing the service too. Like, and I know you mentioned it when you were talking about developing your product. We don't have those standards here in the US we don't yet. We have like. A full market of consumers who want this. 

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JANINE: Yeah,  it's hard, right? It's like that cart before the horse when I went to the labs 'cause obviously I wanted to do it in the US if I could. It's a lot easier and the same language and more affordable. But not a lot of labs were interested in even taking me on. 'cause they're like, yeah, the demand's not there. And I was like, wow. The demand, like you have to wait till we're, you're forced, your hands forced into making things that are better. Like safer. Yeah. No, that's not okay. So it's, you know, the demand thankfully is growing.

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We have much more discerning consumers and I have faith in US produced goods. I'm gonna start producing some of my stuff here. I was able to find labs that it is important to them, but it should be important to all of us. I think, you know, we've, there's been so many things and more recently too, class action lawsuits and stuff.

We’re finding out that things have really damaged a lot of hairdressers and yeah, it's, it's on us to demand better and, and push for brands that give a shit, honestly 

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[00:28:31] 

SHANALIE: No, that's absolutely true. Like the last thing we want is like the most creative, fun people in our lives, which has been like all the salons, all the hairdressers, and now they're all getting sick because of all the services and products we've all demanded. Like, that's heartbreaking. You know, it doesn't even make sense. 

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JANINE: It's even deeper and sadder is that we often are a marginalized community because you know, we're, all of us don't make $500,000 a year and can afford an attorney if something goes wrong or you can’t afford to turn away a smoothing client, you know? You have stylists that built a career on that and it's, these are really hard choices like my health or, you know, being able to pay my rent, so we shouldn't have to make those hard choices. Those should have upfront been figured out. 

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SHANALIE: I, I love that, Janine, I know you're, you're very conscientious of the experience a client has within your salon, a staff member, someone who's, you know, using any of your products, all of that. So I would love to understand from your perspective, like what does the client experience mean to you, whether it's in your own business or another. Would love to hear your take on that. 

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JANINE: Main pillar of both my businesses is easy to do business with. I never want to lose sight of that. I'm absolutely in the customer service business. From when I was a waitress to now. I think it is just as important, and I'll use the term again, to surprise and delight wherever I can. 

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SHANALIE: I love that. 

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[00:30:01] 

JANINE: I want to meet clients wherever they're at in their hair journey. No one has bad hair, you know? And sometimes it's, maybe not today, but let's figure out how we get there in your hair journey. Yeah. And also to just, what can I do to make your hair easier at home? That's always been my goal. And that really, if you were to ask me what was the one thing that inspired me to really lean into making a better perm, it was that it was clients that were like, you know, I had flat hair this or you know, and really did not have the skillset or the means to curling iron their hair every day, which by, I hate to break to you is most people, so they just get their hair blown out and it looks great when I do it. And then they're like, oh, I'm just gonna wear it in a messy crappy bun for the next six weeks. 

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And I just, it never sat right with me and I was like, I wanna fix this, I wanna solve for this. I wanna help rearrange texture in a way that clients feel empowered and emboldened to like, okay, I just have to wet it, throw stuff in, scrunch it. I can do that. So I wanted to come up with a system that was truly effortless and engaged texture in a way that didn't damage client's hair and was something that they could do without having to plug in a hot tool. 

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[00:31:16] 

SHANALIE: Yeah, I love that. I feel like you've approached it from such like emotional understanding, like because it is hair, 

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JANINE: Oh my God it is! Right? It is. Like you get bad bangs, you're crying. No, absolutely. And you're not a baby for it either. Like you should cry. 

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SHANALIE: Absolutely. And sometimes I might be like, oh, something happened and then I gave myself bad bangs. Right? Like you went through an emotional experience, and then you're like in your hair. You know? Uh, I love that. So one thing that we love on last client in the day. Is hearing the tea. So if, are there any good like juicy behind the scenes stories or even horror stories, exciting, could be triumphs, but would love to hear some like behind the curtain moments. 

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JANINE: Oh my gosh. Do you want my worst?

SHANALIE: Would love it if you're okay sharing. Give it to us. 

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JANINE: I’ve never said this on camera. Oh my God. Why am I putting myself on blast too? 

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SHANALIE: I don't know. But I love it.

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JANINE: Because I can't put somebody else on blast. Right. I'm gonna, I have to do it to myself. Okay, so what brought me to LA? I was, uh, the hairdresser to the pussycat dolls. So before they were, I started with them when they were a burlesque troupe, so like 15 people deep. Me and the other hairdresser would do the two hairdressers and 15 people, and then they would turn into the pop group that we all know and love. We were still their hairdresser, but on one of the days I was doing Nicole Stinger's hair, which she just won some award for…. I'm so terrible at this… for like Broadway stuff.

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SHANALIE: I know. I just know her as the voice on Moana's mom for my kids. 

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JANINE: All of all of the above. She's amazing. She is like, she's 

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SHANALIE: Gorgeous.

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JANINE: Gorgeous. Pretty. Perfect voice. All the things. She also moves a lot when you're doing her hair 'cause she is theatrical. Uh, and it's this thing that happened that haunts me to this day, obviously. 'cause this was 1 million thousand years ago. I was curling her hair with a big, huge barrel curling iron, and she turned to me and I fully burned her on her shoulder. She still has a scar. 

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SHANALIE: You left a mark on a pussycat doll. 

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JANINE: I did! Not even like, oh my God. The pussycat doll! And she was so nice. And was she, it was like, that was my fault. I'm like, it was, but I feel terrible. Like to this day, it haunts me.

SHANALIE: Do you like watch her on the red carpet, like there it is, there’s the scar!

JANINE: Yes!  (laughing)

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SHANALIE: You have to let it go, Janine. 

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JANINE: I won't, I'll never let it go. 

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SHANALIE: Now, I'm gonna look for this scar.

JANINE: I'm sorry, Nicole. There's not a week that goes by that I don't feel terrible. Yeah. I threw up like, I was like, gimme a second, and I just ran outta the trailer and threw up 

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SHANALIE: The nerves took over, I'm sure.

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[00:33:59] 

SHANALIE: Even if it wasn't a big celeb, I feel like you, that would like devastate anyone. You know? Like that's a crazy moment. You're never prepared for something like that. 

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JANINE: Thank God she's so kind and generous with her forgiveness.

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SHANALIE: I know. Sometimes I think it would almost be better if she cussed you out, like, yeah. You know what I mean? 

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JANINE: And I could be like, oh my God, you turned into…. No, she's like, that was my fault. I'm like, oh my God, you're gonna be nice to me. Just burn me back. Great. Yeah, right. So that's my, that's my worst. I probably have more worse, but I think that's my worst.

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SHANALIE: Yeah, that was a good one.

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 JANINE: Is that the tea or did I like go way too dark? 

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SHANALIE: No, I loved it. Loved every minute. I'm sure everyone listening in will love it too. 

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JANINE: Oh, they're like, that idiot. 

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SHANALIE: But that's all right. It happens. We've all done it. Yeah. We've all had our moments. 

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I haven't burned a pussycat doll, but you know we all have our embarrassing moments. You know, I'll, I'll take your advice. I won't do it. But Janine, thank you again for joining us. So any final thoughts before we let we let you go? 

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[00:35:06] 

JANINE: Yeah, I mean like if you're a hairdresser, a newer hairdresser watching this or like, you know, I try to think like, why, why is someone listening to or watching this?

Right? You're obviously tapping into your industry. You wanna be inspired, I think stay curious. Forever be learning to this day, you know, always get after that, that paycheck, for sure. But I still do probably as much free stuff as I do paid stuff, because I never want to stop being scared, stop being challenged, stop learning, creating everything I've said yes to has led me to something so much bigger than I could have ever imagined for myself.

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So I think, yeah, that's it. Like just keep saying yes, keep trying things and fail often and fail fast, because that's how you get wherever we're supposed to be going. I don't think I'm ever getting there. But yeah, I do the things.

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SHANALIE: I love that you love the journey. That's the important part. That's so beautiful, Janine. It's such a pleasure. 

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JANINE: Thanks so much for having me. 

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SHANALIE: So let our listeners know where they can find you, your businesses, all that. 

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JANINE: Yeah. so curlcult.com is the website. There's a online certification. Take it., Even if you don't do the perm, just take it. Right? It’s free! But yeah, try perming. Clients love it. They really do. You know, don't be, don't be such a scaredy cat or negative Nancy. Like every, sorry Nancy, if you're out there. But don't, don't be it like, everyone's like, oh my God, I would never like what? Never. I mean, maybe, So do the things.

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Lean into texture. Texture clients are awesome and there's only gonna be more of them out there, so hurry up and get good at it. And my salon, hairroinsalon.com, and then on all the other things, right at the same words, @curlcult and @hairroin. And I guess you could follow me if you want, but it's like dog pictures and kid pictures.

But I'm Janine Jarman, so yeah. 

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SHANALIE: Beautiful. Thank you so much, Jeanine. 

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JANINE: Thank you. 

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